featherxquill: (McG face beautiful)
[personal profile] featherxquill
Just a random thought for the evening, half formed but intriguing.

I'm not sure about this, so feel free to disagree/discuss this with me, but there are a lot of times during penseive memories in HBP that we are given references about how attractive Tom Riddle is.

Now, we assume that the memories that we are seeing came from the person who wasn't Voldemort, in each memory.

But I'm curious. What if they were not.

What if they came from someone else who was present. Someone who found Tom Riddle attractive?

I must admit even when I was reading I found the lack of McGonagall memories conspicuous.

When did she register as an animagus? What if the memories came not from the people in them, but from a silver and black tabby cat that happened to be present?

Just thoughts. Feel free to agree or rebutt.

Date: 2005-12-17 04:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] moon-very-thin.livejournal.com
It's a nice idea. Personally I found the lack of Minerva memories scadalous and hoped one of them might be hers, but I'm pretty sure the origins of all of them are accounted form

The first can't be Minerva's as it takes place before she was born. The second Albus expressly tells us is his own.The third we know comes from Slughorn. The fourth Dumbledore tells Harry he got from Smith's House elf (and why would Minerva be there anyway?)

The fifth is Tom's interview with Headmaster Dumbledore. Due to Rowling spectacularly messed up timeline this would seem to have happened several years before Minerva started teaching (though possibly the interview, Minerva's coming to teach, and Dumbledore's being made headmaster all happened in the same year.)

I do wish that Minerva's being a contemporary of Riddle's at school would be addressed though. For example, would Minerva have been in the Slug Club with him?

I see where you're going with the notion of the 'attractive Tom' point of view in the memories, but I beieve JKR has stated that memories in the pensieve are exact reproductions, not clouded by personal bias. So I tihnk every observation of the hawtness of Tom actually comes from Harry's own personal opinions. (Hur hur)

Would be nice to be able to think at least one of 'em was hers though...

Date: 2005-12-18 07:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] potterpants.livejournal.com
Oooh yeah that really makes sense! I failed to pick up on this *must re-read HBP* but yeah that does make sense!

Date: 2006-01-10 07:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] deccaboo.livejournal.com
I love Minerva too, but I don't think she would have known Riddle at school. For one thing, they were in different houses, for another, she was a few years older than he was. There really wouldn't have been any reason for them to know each other unless they were both in the Slug Club, which is plausible as Min must have been a talented transfiguress to become an Animagus.

Do you mind if I add you as a friend? Feel free to add me back if you like, (we appear to be attending Hogwarts together *g*)

Date: 2006-01-10 09:20 pm (UTC)
ext_6725: (Licius is worth it)
From: [identity profile] featherxquill.livejournal.com
That's fine! I love new friends!

Riddle and Minerva did indeed go to school together. I think she would have been in Seventh year when the chamber was opened, actually (though I'm not entirely sure - the lexicon has a timeline but I'm too lazt to check it right now). I think it's very likely that Minerva was prefect and then Head Girl, and since we know Riddle was a prefect, I think it's quite possible that they knew each other.

Those thoughts in the post are late-night and not terribly well thought out, and I think it's pretty much clear that they weren't her memories, on closer inspection, but I still think it's quite possible they knew each other, and that Minerva was one of the people Dumbledore was talkign about who was unwilling to talk about what she remembered of Riddle.

Date: 2006-01-11 12:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] deccaboo.livejournal.com
I've got a WiP on Tom Riddle's school days, that's been going for some time, so I've done a lot of research on him.

Since what Tom was doing was so secret, and I doubt he counted Min as a great friend as she was a Gryffindor and two years older than him, the memories she would have of him would be of the 'false' him and of little use to Harry and Dumbledore.

Minerva is a Gryffindor, she's such a brave and magnificent woman - she survived 4 stunning spells to the chest - I think if she knew anything about Riddle, she would have told Dumbledore immediately.

Hey, everyone's theories are valid until disproven though, I'm not knocking anything. I just think, personally, that Minerva would do anything to help Dumbledore destroy Voldemort, especially if all she was asked to do is provide a memory.

I love discussions :D

Nighty night!

Date: 2006-01-11 01:22 am (UTC)
ext_6725: (Default)
From: [identity profile] featherxquill.livejournal.com

I can't help but be a little tiny bit of Riddle/Minerva shipper, though. Perhaps that she saw more of his nasty side than she would like to remember.

And when I say 'unwilling', I mean unwilling to share her memories with Harry, since I'm certain Dumbledore would have told someone like her what he was going to do with it, especially if the memories she had of him were personal or unpleasant.

Date: 2006-01-13 05:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] deccaboo.livejournal.com
Hmm, still not convinced about McGonagall/Riddle. He definitely wouldn't have liked her if she was the same as a girl as she is now, for if she was a friend to 'mudbloods and muggles', I doubt Tom would have wasted his time on her, whether she was pretty or not. I doubt he would ever lose his head over a girl and we don't know enough about the younger Minerva to know whether she was looking at a glittering career when she'd left Hogwarts. We don't even know if she was a member of the Slug Club, which is odd, as Slughorn surely would have mentioned her, if she had been.

Dumbledore said that Tom had plenty of acquaintances at Hogwarts but no real friends, so I doubt even the Slytherins he called friends really knew the full extent of what he was up to, never mind a Gryffindor who was two years older than he was.

The years at Hogwarts seem to be pretty insular, with friends from other years either being friends's siblings or friends made from a school-wide base like the house Quidditch teams or Charms club or something. Hermione and Ron said nothing of meeting and making friends with the prefects from other years, even though they should have met them if they all have to share the same carriage on the Hogwarts Express.

So, I still think that whilst he would have known her, Minerva would have been too stuck in with her Head Girl duties, the Heir of Slytherin crisis and her final year of NEWTs to bother with him much.

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